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View Full Version : Alice 3.0 to release too late for my son?


RobMikeMom
12-16-2008, 10:04 PM
My son is just starting learning Alice 2.0. He is 10.5 years old, and has taken off with creating worlds in Alice 2.0. We plan to use Dick Baldwin's lessons to give him a GOOD intro to computer programming class using Alice. He should be able to finish those lessons by the time he turns 11 in June. And since the idea of learning Alice is so that they can then move onto more "real" programming with a good foundation, it seems that by the time Alice 3.0 is released, he will already have "moved on" to the "next step". (My preference is Visual Basic .NET but he may decide to go for Java so that he can use it in Roblox, too. I wll be able to handle helping him learn whichever he chooses.)

Would Alice 3.0 be a good tool for his "next step" in learning computer programming after "mastering" Alice 2.0 since he can advance into Java with it? Or will he be better off just moving onto VB.NET and/or some other Java environment at that point?

Thanks for your opinion,

RockyTheConcreteDonkey
12-18-2008, 09:44 PM
My son is just starting learning Alice 2.0. He is 10.5 years old, and has taken off with creating worlds in Alice 2.0. We plan to use Dick Baldwin's lessons to give him a GOOD intro to computer programming class using Alice. He should be able to finish those lessons by the time he turns 11 in June. And since the idea of learning Alice is so that they can then move onto more "real" programming with a good foundation, it seems that by the time Alice 3.0 is released, he will already have "moved on" to the "next step". (My preference is Visual Basic .NET but he may decide to go for Java so that he can use it in Roblox, too. I wll be able to handle helping him learn whichever he chooses.)

Would Alice 3.0 be a good tool for his "next step" in learning computer programming after "mastering" Alice 2.0 since he can advance into Java with it? Or will he be better off just moving onto VB.NET and/or some other Java environment at that point?

Thanks for your opinion, I think Alice 3.0 would be perfect well it depends... If its easier than 2.0 (wich it shouldnt be) its still good for free time, Mabe there will be an optional programming type (for more expirienced programmers)

But me Id reccomend it, *Rocky pulls out birth certificate* I'm 2... Well if i was 14 Id still use alice, and even in my short years since invention, I could NOT find an equal program to alice;). I hope I dont... Athough 3.0 should have a 2D option (like Autocad switches from 3D or 2D views). And its not too late for challenges!

Bronze = Quick programmed movement
Silver = Spent some time on it
Gold = Takes forever but looks really good with lots of features:D

DickBaldwin
12-19-2008, 10:13 AM
My son is just starting learning Alice 2.0. He is 10.5 years old, and has taken off with creating worlds in Alice 2.0. We plan to use Dick Baldwin's lessons to give him a GOOD intro to computer programming class using Alice. He should be able to finish those lessons by the time he turns 11 in June. And since the idea of learning Alice is so that they can then move onto more "real" programming with a good foundation, it seems that by the time Alice 3.0 is released, he will already have "moved on" to the "next step". (My preference is Visual Basic .NET but he may decide to go for Java so that he can use it in Roblox, too. I wll be able to handle helping him learn whichever he chooses.)

Would Alice 3.0 be a good tool for his "next step" in learning computer programming after "mastering" Alice 2.0 since he can advance into Java with it? Or will he be better off just moving onto VB.NET and/or some other Java environment at that point?

Thanks for your opinion,
See lessons 1600 through 1630 at http://www.dickbaldwin.com/tocint.htm for when your son has mastered Alice 2.0 and is ready to move on to something more rigorous. It should mesh well with Alice 3.0 if and when Alice 3.0 becomes available.

Also see http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/mediaComp-plan/101, which is where I am spending a lot of time these days, getting into the nuts and bolts of the free Java multimedia library that Barb Ericson has provided. I am currently publishing a series of tutorial lessons designed to explain what makes her multimedia library tick.

If your son decides to go the .net route, I would recommend C# instead of VB. The C# syntax and concept is much closer to C/C++ and Java than is the VB syntax. VB continues to be in a world all its own.

Dick Baldwin
Free Alice tutorials: http://www.dickbaldwin.com/tocalice.htm
Free Scratch tutorials: http://www.dickbaldwin.com/tocHomeSchool.htm
Free Java/C#, etc. tutorials: http://www.dickbaldwin.com/toc.htm

DrJim
12-21-2008, 04:50 AM
If your son decides to go the .net route, I would recommend C# instead of VB. The C# syntax and concept is much closer to C/C++ and Java than is the VB syntax. VB continues to be in a world all its own.


While I would hesitate to disagree with Dick, I have no problem when I can agree with him completely. :)

IMO, for someone starting out, C# is clearly the better choice. Most of the C/C++ and VB packages still have a lot of proceedural legacy code overhead buried into them. While OOP has unfortunately taken on some of the aspects of a religion - it really is an improvement over earlier programming approaches (from someone who debuged way too many DIMENSION statements in the "old days") and is where you should go if starting fresh.

Java is nice, but I find that the compiler/virtual machine implementations leave a lot to be desired.

RobMikeMom
12-22-2008, 06:39 PM
Now I have been reading through a lot of the product Phrogram (http://www.phrogram.com). It actually looks like it might be a good step to use after Alice (for my son's age) since it is still a beginner programming environment, it is still aimed at building simple games, but it takes the step of moving into a Code-Centric environment instead of the Object-Centered environment of Alice. It also says that it is a good predecessor to whichever "real" language he would learn - C#, VB, or Java.

Any comments on Phrogram?

gypsy fly
12-31-2008, 04:46 PM
Looked at the Phrogram website and saw Logo-like fractals and simple polygons. Might want to try a look at my favorite versions of logo elica (http://www.elica.net) or netlogo (http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/).

Of course, Logo, Scheme, Lisp are lambda-calculus, most others are algebraic.

gypsy fly
12-31-2008, 04:54 PM
Looked at the Phrogram website and saw Logo-like fractals and simple polygons. Might want to try a look at my favorite versions of logo elica (http://www.elica.net) or netlogo (http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/).

Of course, Logo, Scheme, Lisp are lambda-calculus, most others are algebraic.