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View Full Version : Alice 3 is now in public beta


gabe
06-01-2009, 10:09 AM
You can download it here:

http://alice.org/3

It's still in heavy development, so please embrace it as a work-in-progress. :)

**6/10/09**
We currently have builds up for Mac OS X 10.5+ and Windows (32 bit). We are working on a version for Linux and 64 bit Windows.

Also, the NetBeans plugin is now available for download. This will let you import your Alice 3 worlds into the NetBeans IDE for editing and playback.

arty-fishL
06-01-2009, 03:07 PM
:mad: I was good at programming in Alice 2, but Alice 3 is totally different. I don't understand the words, can't make anything work, and keep getting rendering errors when I try to do some things. How do you add events? what do the words used mean? I can't make the objects do as much, as there doesn't seem to be as many methods/procedures. I managed to work out how to move objects properly (using 1,2,3 and 4 buttons on keyboard), but it wasn't obvious. I can't find as much information on the objects as before, under properties, and if I try to change some of them I get a red preview screen saying "error in attempting to render screen". I don't know how to add variables or parameters, either in the single methods/procedures, or globally. I can select parts of objects to do procedures, but it is hard to find them and they are orginised into short names that make no sense. I much prefer Alice 2.2! There is no help as of yet!
On the other hand; Alice 3 looks much cleaner, plays much cleaner, works smoother and looks good with Sims 2 technology integrated, but the character movement list is very long, but I can't specify exactly what I want my person to do.
It seems quite complicated and I know nothing about Java code, I can only use Alice code. I have a whole new language to learn, just to use this program:confused:

MrMoke
06-01-2009, 05:39 PM
Yeah, at some point you will probably have to start learning Java and OOP terminology.

This Beta, however, is not something I would want to start using in the classroom any time soon. I was hoping for a switch to 3.0 by next Fall, but I don't see that happening.

A simple manual might be helpful. I figured out where most of the stuff lives, but I may have missed a few things.

Some Things like: If you create a custom character that can do all the neat preprogrammed things, how do you teach it to do something it can't, like walk?:confused:

Also, I loaded it on a Vista machine. It was extremely crash-prone; I couldn't get anything done. Will try to follow-up with Windows XP testing this summer, but?

doudou
06-02-2009, 08:30 AM
There are a lot of full body outfit:p

HisWorld
06-02-2009, 10:57 AM
This is great, I'm guessing the release follows the backup plan if a final version could not be completed by this summer. I had the original beta version released in Feb. but ran into multiple error's on any and ever action.

DrJim
06-02-2009, 11:17 AM
This Beta, however, is not something I would want to start using in the classroom any time soon.

Also, I loaded it on a Vista machine. It was extremely crash-prone; I couldn't get anything done. Will try to follow-up with Windows XP testing this summer, but?

After my problems with 2.2, I didn't even bother to try with Vista - just went directly to my XP machine. It loaded relatively smoothly and has been relatively bug free so far. (It is still obviously Beta software.)

As far as classroom use goes - don't want to really comment in any detail since I'm not a teacher, but I would be interested in other opinions. I note that the current summer workshops are specifically covering Alice 2.2 and 3.0.

Based on a first look, it appears that some of the "easy" things you can do in 2.x are going to require a bit higher understanding of Java in 3.0. Not a bad thing for CS majors (to claim 2.0 is a really good way to teach OOP has always seemed a bit of a stretch) - but that might also be a bit of a "turn off" for an introductory course.

Phanatic
06-03-2009, 07:01 PM
this is very very different, its def smoother but i have no idea whats going on

lanceA
06-04-2009, 11:29 AM
Where do you get the plug-in module allowing NetBeans to edit Alice worlds? Dennis mentions it in his Alice Screencast.

I've been on NetBeans.org site and Sun's site and I am unable to locate it. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

jyby
06-04-2009, 05:47 PM
Heya all.

Downloaded and install Alice 3.0 Beta under a tablet PC with XP on it, it works great, and I like the new interfave, I will continue to test it.

I noticed the disapearance of the "Array Visualisation" object that I liked so much in Alice 2.0. Is it still planned (I can wait) or did it really disapear from the cursus (they maybe I will plan to do my own in Java when I get the time)?

Good work in any case,

JyBy

larslem
06-04-2009, 05:54 PM
Seems like Alice is now a project under Sun's Project Kenai (http://kenai.com/projects/alice). And Netbeans latest version (http://www.netbeans.org/community/releases/67/) introduces integration with this Project Kenai. Read under Release Overview. I haven't had the time to test it, but I'm going to.

Lars

lanceA
06-04-2009, 06:13 PM
As I understand it, Kenai, is a Cloud project. I am not into Cloud computing.

It's sort of like Big Brother having access to my files.

lanceA
06-04-2009, 06:47 PM
I don't wish anyone to forget my original post.............

Where do I find the NetBeans plugin that allows me to edit Alice 3.0-Beta code?

Thank you,

gabe
06-04-2009, 11:17 PM
I don't wish anyone to forget my original post.............

Where do I find the NetBeans plugin that allows me to edit Alice 3.0-Beta code?

Thank you,

The Alice Team is currently at JavaOne. I'll put the plugin online as soon as we get to Pittsburgh.

gabe
06-04-2009, 11:39 PM
After my problems with 2.2, I didn't even bother to try with Vista - just went directly to my XP machine. It loaded relatively smoothly and has been relatively bug free so far. (It is still obviously Beta software.)

As far as classroom use goes - don't want to really comment in any detail since I'm not a teacher, but I would be interested in other opinions. I note that the current summer workshops are specifically covering Alice 2.2 and 3.0.

Based on a first look, it appears that some of the "easy" things you can do in 2.x are going to require a bit higher understanding of Java in 3.0. Not a bad thing for CS majors (to claim 2.0 is a really good way to teach OOP has always seemed a bit of a stretch) - but that might also be a bit of a "turn off" for an introductory course.

Alice 3 is object oriented, so some things are going to be a bit more difficult than the instance-based Alice 2. However, this will make the transition to an object oriented language like Java a lot smoother. It's impossible to make everyone happy, but I think most intro CS instructors will embrace this and it will hopefully bring in some new converts.

Alice 2 and 2.2 will continue to be available on our website, but we are moving full steam ahead with Alice 3.

lanceA
06-05-2009, 09:48 AM
The Alice Team is currently at JavaOne. I'll put the plugin online as soon as we get to Pittsburgh.

Thanks, Gabe

DrJim
06-05-2009, 12:31 PM
The Alice Team is currently at JavaOne. I'll put the plugin online as soon as we get to Pittsburgh.

Thanks from me also. :)

Are plugins for any other IDE's planned? NetBeans has quite a steep learning curve.

gabe
06-05-2009, 09:29 PM
Thanks from me also. :)

Are plugins for any other IDE's planned? NetBeans has quite a steep learning curve.

We don't have immediate plans to create a plugin for other IDEs, but we do plan on creating a standalone Alice-to-Java converter that will allow you to view your Alice worlds in whatever IDE you want. No timeline is set, but it's all in the plans. The todo list is mammoth. :)

DrJim
06-06-2009, 11:11 AM
We don't have immediate plans to create a plugin for other IDEs, but we do plan on creating a standalone Alice-to-Java converter that will allow you to view your Alice worlds in whatever IDE you want...

Even better. :) Thanks for the information.

ttkrakus
06-09-2009, 02:04 PM
Something I saw was missing in Alice is the ability of creating composite objects; objects created by combining other object. This would be a great addition to Alice. With this feature you can use Alice for creating new models (instead of the cumbersome process of creating and importing ASE files) with built-in features.

Please, if not for this release of Alice, consider this feature for future releases.... Thanks

cardsfan527
06-09-2009, 06:00 PM
The beta looks promising, with the very helpful SIMS characters and preprogrammed methods, but it continues to crash and remains very confusing. For now, I'm sticking with 2.2. Please check out my baseball home run derby game and comment at:

http://www.alice.org/community/showthread.php?t=2742&highlight=game

gabe
06-10-2009, 06:06 PM
I don't wish anyone to forget my original post.............
Where do I find the NetBeans plugin that allows me to edit Alice 3.0-Beta code?


The NetBeans plugin is now online. We have moved our Alice 3 beta downloads to Kenai. So for now, you can download from their host, which, if anything, should be faster and more stable than our server.

http://kenai.com/projects/alice/downloads

It works with NetBeans 6.5. For those of you with the newer 6.7 beta, we think it should work...it just hasn't been tested out. If someone can verify this, that would be great.

lanceA
06-11-2009, 11:29 AM
The NetBeans plugin is now online. We have moved our Alice 3 beta downloads to Kenai. So for now, you can download from their host, which, if anything, should be faster and more stable than our server.

http://kenai.com/projects/alice/downloads

It works with NetBeans 6.5. For those of you with the newer 6.7 beta, we think it should work...it just hasn't been tested out. If someone can verify this, that would be great.

Thanks Gabe,
I'm using NetBeans 6.5.1 at the moment. Once I install and have a day or two to play with the plugin I will attempt to download 6.7 beta and test it.

Thanks again for the posting !!:)

DrJim
06-11-2009, 01:31 PM
Thanks again for the posting !!:)

Let me add my thanks :) - somewhat qualified by the fact I guess I'm going to have to start figuring out NetBeans. :(

But that qualification is really minor compared to the fact this lets Alice 3 really display and use its full potential!!!

Note: Just tried to download from the site and the only thing there right now is Alice 3 Beta.

lanceA
06-11-2009, 01:57 PM
Let me add my thanks :) - somewhat qualified by the fact I guess I'm going to have to start figuring out NetBeans. :(

But that qualification is really minor compared to the fact this lets Alice 3 really display and use its full potential!!!

Note: Just tried to download from the site and the only thing there right now is Alice 3 Beta.

Click on it Dr. Jim, and other downloads appear - including the plugin.

Gabe, I'm getting "Reference Problems" when opening an Alice Project in NetBeans. Are the only two jar files I need to add to my classpath JOGL.jar and GLUEGEN-RT.jar? I'm currently running Alice 3.0 from a C-drive and NetBeans from an F-drive. I've set up the proper paths to those two jar files.....I just need to know if I need to add additional classpaths to other jars? Thinks and sorry that I have to ask the question. :o

Dennis Cosgrove
06-11-2009, 02:14 PM
In order to run Alice3 Java projects in NetBeans you will need to download and install the NetBeans JOGL Plugin (http://plugins.netbeans.org/PluginPortal/faces/PluginDetailPage.jsp?pluginid=3260).

lanceA
06-11-2009, 02:40 PM
In order to run Alice3 Java projects in NetBeans you will need to download and install the NetBeans JOGL Plugin (http://plugins.netbeans.org/PluginPortal/faces/PluginDetailPage.jsp?pluginid=3260).

Oh, ok and thank you. I will do it now.

DrJim
06-11-2009, 04:10 PM
Thanks All. :)

Got everything but NetBeans itself - which is tomorrow's download/installation project.

Of course then I'll have to figure out what to do with it :rolleyes: - but glad to be in that position.

lanceA
06-11-2009, 04:42 PM
In order to run Alice3 Java projects in NetBeans you will need to download and install the NetBeans JOGL Plugin (http://plugins.netbeans.org/PluginPortal/faces/PluginDetailPage.jsp?pluginid=3260).

That was the ingredient needed!! IT WORKS!! Thank you!

I will keep you updated on my experiences.

Thanks again.

lanceA
06-11-2009, 05:27 PM
That was the ingredient needed!! IT WORKS!! Thank you!

I will keep you updated on my experiences.

Thanks again.

This is cool!!!!

If you do not teach you may not be able to appreciate it. If you do not know Java programming it might be a steep learning curve, but it is definitely cool!!!!!!!!!! GREAT job!!!!!

(It doesn't add anything to being able to create new Objects or importing Objects as far as I can see..............but I just started playing with it today. ) Tomorrow I will try to use Java's reserved word new on an object.

But then again, it's supposed to be a Teaching Tool, right?

However this release appears to add an entirely new dimension to teaching and being able to switch between environments. ( I will definitely begin to explore this more tomorrow.)

Just my 2˘

ttkrakus
06-12-2009, 10:42 AM
Well, this just got very interesting.

Try WiiuseJ...Have FUN!!:D

Find it in Google Code: http://code.google.com/p/wiiusej/

lanceA
06-12-2009, 11:29 AM
This is cool!!!!

If you do not teach you may not be able to appreciate it. If you do not know Java programming it might be a steep learning curve, but it is definitely cool!!!!!!!!!! GREAT job!!!!!

(It doesn't add anything to being able to create new Objects or importing Objects as far as I can see..............but I just started playing with it today. ) Tomorrow I will try to use Java's reserved word new on an object.

But then again, it's supposed to be a Teaching Tool, right?

However this release appears to add an entirely new dimension to teaching and being able to switch between environments. ( I will definitely begin to explore this more tomorrow.)

Just my 2˘

Just for info, I created Dennis's chickenHop program in Alice 3.0. I then opened the project in NetBeans and successfully wrote the Java code to create (new) a second instance of the Chicken class and sucessfully had this second object perform some basic tasks. :)

gabe
06-12-2009, 11:37 AM
Just for info, I created Dennis's chickenHop program in Alice 3.0. I then opened the project in NetBeans and successfully wrote the Java code to create (new) a second instance of the Chicken class and sucessfully had this second object perform some basic tasks. :)

Lance, the NetBeans plugin is something we haven't worked on as extensively as the rest of the system, but it is on our todo list. Definitely let us know your thoughts and what features you'd like to see in the plugin that aren't there now.

lanceA
06-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Lance, the NetBeans plugin is something we haven't worked on as extensively as the rest of the system, but it is on our todo list. Definitely let us know your thoughts and what features you'd like to see in the plugin that aren't there now.

Thanks Gabe, will do. Just for info:

I opened the chickenHop project in NetBeans again but this time I wanted to see if I could create an instance of a new object that was never placed in the project. I now have two chicken objects and one cow object!! I created an instance of the Cow object entirely through code in NetBeans. This continues to be very interesting.

Kudos to the Alice team!

scouprie
06-15-2009, 02:30 PM
I can not figure out how to get my Alice file into NetBeans. I installed the Alice plugin from the Kenai page and the OpenGL download that was mentioned in an earlier posting. Now what do I do?

lanceA
06-15-2009, 06:24 PM
I can not figure out how to get my Alice file into NetBeans. I installed the Alice plugin from the Kenai page and the OpenGL download that was mentioned in an earlier posting. Now what do I do?
If you wish, post your email address in a prvt msg to me and I will send you a small write-up that I have done which describes the necessary steps to open Alice 3.0 files in NetBeans.

ttkrakus
06-17-2009, 12:23 AM
Is there a Wiki for Alice?

How do you guys feel about creating one?

We could create one that uses Semantic Web to keep everything nicely organized

DrJim
06-17-2009, 10:06 AM
Is there a Wiki for Alice?

There is a spot for one at the same Kenai site that is now being used for downloads:
http://kenai.com/projects/alice
At the moment, however, it seems to be empty.

lanceA
06-18-2009, 01:34 PM
Today I successfully created a project in Alice 3.0 (beta), modified it by creating some new instances of Alice Objects using NetBeans, created a .jar file and saved it to disk. I then got out of Alice and NetBeans and successfully ran the jar file as a standalone application!! Who needs to video their Alice creations anymore ? :)

Not sure what will happen once we have the ability to add sound files.

I'll send the writeup as soon as I've completed it, DrJim.

Nice job Alice 3.0 team!! ;)

DrJim
06-18-2009, 02:04 PM
...the NetBeans plugin is something we haven't worked on as extensively as the rest of the system ... let us know your thoughts.

For something you “… haven't worked on … extensively,” the plugin is really nice. Following LanceA’s notes (very quick summary – “read the installation instructions, stupid”) I managed to load NetBeans and the plugin and successfully do (relatively minor) edits on Alice 3 methods in less than three hours :) – something I thought would take me several days.

Still some issues, of course, and I really haven’t tried anything complex – but that’s really due to my lack of Java skill.

I noticed Dennis in his blog mentioned talking to the Greenfoot/BlueJ team at Java One about joint efforts. Since I was taking the dive into NetBeans anyway, I decided to also load the BlueJ plugin. Just that is nice. The BlueJ stuff is both more mature and less complex than Alice 3 – but the basic approaches for the plugins seem similar – and it was nice to have intermediate steps with tutorials available.

lanceA
06-18-2009, 04:50 PM
This continues to be interesting!

I have an icon on my Desktop which, when clicked, runs an Alice 3.0 program without requiring Alice. And yes, it takes some learning (I had to waste 3 hours today learning how to do it! :)) but it is doable. Now I should be able to do it for other Alice projects in 2-3 mins.

(I use the term waste very loosely. It was a great learning experience!)

arevira
06-20-2009, 10:16 AM
I have an icon on my Desktop which, when clicked, runs an Alice 3.0 program without requiring Alice

There are a couple of ways of doing this. The one I always use is with Launch4j (http://launch4j.sourceforge.net/). This is a free software that creates an executable (.exe, in Windows) wrapper for your jar files. It works for Windows (Linux, Macs, etc). It is highly customizable, and it even allows you to create a splash screen to be displayed when your program is executed.

Cheers

DrJim
06-20-2009, 12:03 PM
This continues to be interesting!

I have an icon on my Desktop which, when clicked, runs an Alice 3.0 program without requiring Alice. And yes, it takes some learning (I had to waste 3 hours today learning how to do it! :)) but it is doable.

Yes, it really is doable - I finally got that working a few minutes ago. And it took me well over 3 hours - I probably wasted that much time before I finally figured out (or remembered?) that you had to reboot for a CLASSPATH change to beome efective.

The approach I came up with is certainly not ready for prime time yet - as much due to my problems with Alice 3 Beta and NetBeans as anything else. (Why can't programs do what you want them to do instead of what you actually tell them to? :p) But I am really impressed by the potential that is there. :)

lanceA
06-20-2009, 02:32 PM
There are a couple of ways of doing this. The one I always use is with Launch4j (http://launch4j.sourceforge.net/). This is a free software that creates an executable (.exe, in Windows) wrapper for your jar files. It works for Windows (Linux, Macs, etc). It is highly customizable, and it even allows you to create a splash screen to be displayed when your program is executed.

Cheers

Thanks for the information but I do not believe Launch4j is the answer - I would love to be proven wrong!!

Several Java switches need to be set when running the program. It looks like the package relies on JNI to load a C++ library. (possibly the .dll's).



Anyway when I run my programs I have to use:

-ea to enable assertions.
-Xmx1024m which gives Java more memory to play with. In this case, 1 gig. It doesn't mean Java will use it, only that it is allowed to use it if necessary.
-DJava.library.path which points to the .dll libraries for the package
I'm not sure Launch4j will allow me to do all that but thank you for sharing - we all need help in these uncharted waters. It would be nice if it did. If you know how please share with me.

P.S. I got this information when I simply typed:
java -jar AliceProjectWizardProject.jar from the DOS prompt
...and also by reading the README.txt file in the .dist folder.



Good luck,

arevira
06-20-2009, 03:39 PM
My problem was that I was invoking a very old version of java (1.4.2) when using the command line. Once I deleted that and pointed my env vars to the latest jdk release I got it to work.

You are right, LanceA. I also took the information about the needed switches from the error messages when running the project for the command line.

However, for those who have not done this yet, the path given in these error messages is not the right one. That path is for an earlier Beta release, 3.beta.0000 (the directory structure is also different).

The path given there is:
/Program Files/Alice/3.beta.0000/tools/jogl/lib/windows-i586

But, for version 3.0.0.0.55 (the one currently available), this path should be:
<drive>\Program Files\Alice3Beta\application\windows-i586
This points to the java native interface DLL file.

The path to the Java OpenGL DLLs is
<drive>\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\windows-i586

Both of this paths have to be passed to java for executing your project.

Assuming you installed Alice3.0 in the default folder, and on the C: drive, the following command will run your AliceProjectWizardProject.jar (The file generated when you build an Alice project in NetBeans):

java -ea -Xmx1024m -Djava.library.path="C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\application\windows-i586;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\windows-i586" -jar "AliceProjectWizardProject.jar"

I run this command inside the folder
C:\Documents and Settings\<yourusername>\My Documents\NetBeansProjects\<yourAliceProject>\dist
This folder is created automatically by NetBeans when you build your project.

I would recommend people to make a little BAT file for running your projects from the command line. Since all built project files are named AliceProjectWizardProject.jar, you could just copy and paste this BAT file in the dist folder of each Alice NetBeans Project your create.

This is a way you can create that BAT file:

1- Start notepad.exe (On XP: START > All Programs >Accessories > Notepad)

2- Paste the following in the editing area:
java -ea -Xmx1024m -Djava.library.path="C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\application\windows-i586;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\windows-i586" -jar "AliceProjectWizardProject.jar"

Make sure this forms a single line --widen the Notepad window and scroll sideways if necessary.

3-Save your file as run.bat inside the dist folder of your project.
Make sure "Save as type" option is set to "All Files" (otherwise notepad may insists in adding .TXT after run.bat

Now, whenever you want to run your NetBeans Alice Project, navigate to the dist folder of the project and double-click on the run.bat file.

Cheers

lanceA
06-20-2009, 09:48 PM
As I mentioned in an earlier post, that is why I use a batch file and not Launch4j.

Thank you for your input.

arevira
06-20-2009, 11:45 PM
I uploaded a tutorial for creating an EXE wrapper for your Alice3.0 NetBeans project using the free software Launch4j.

I uploaded the file here (http://www.alice.org/community/showthread.php?p=10714#post10714) in the "Questions and Comments" section of the forum because I could not upload attachments in this thread.

The tutorial only outlines the minimum number of steps to generate an EXE wrapper for your project. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, Launch4j is highly customizable and you can even add a splash screen.

Enjoy

arevira
06-21-2009, 12:18 AM
Neither lanceA's batch file nor my idea of using Launch4j *as they stand now* make your project distributable to others without Alice3.0 being installed in their computers.

In order to do this, you need the following:


Inside the dist folder of your built project, create a DLL folder
Copy the .dll files from the following two folders:
C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\application\windows-i586
C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\windows-i586
to the DLL folder you created in the previous step.
Create an EXE wrapper using Launch4j (see here (http://www.alice.org/community/showthread.php?p=10714#post10714)). Notice that, for the values passed to the VM, use java.library.path="DLL"
Compress the dist folder


You could then send the compressed folder to someone, who would then just unzip it and double-click on the EXE file.

BEFORE YOU ATTEMP THIS: I have not checked the licensing terms the DLL mentioned above are subjected to. What I am suggesting here is technically possible, but it may be *illegal*!! Please, check the licenses to make sure this is allowed. DO NOT DISTRIBUTE THE DLLs UNLESS YOU ARE 100% SURE THIS IS ALLOWED. I posted this information in the interest of advancing knowledge in this area only.

*** IMPORTANT ***
There is something I missed in my first post.

DrJim
06-21-2009, 12:01 PM
Well I'm as confused as usual - but at least at a higher level about things that seem potentially really useful. Thanks for all your postings. :)

A couple of fairly basic questions:

1. Since all built project files are named "AliceProjectWizardProject.jar," does it hurt to rename them?

2. If so, is it possible to just duplicate the supporting files once, or do you have to do that for all projects?

3. If you can get by with doing it only once, can you then run a .jar file imbeded in a web page?

4. Do you need the full JDK to run the projects or is the JRE enough?

In case it's not obvious, what the underlying question really is is if one can create the equivalent of an "export to web page" for a project using the build capabilities of NetBeans. If so, the legal question becomes significant - hopefully Gabe or someone at CMU can give an answer on that.

I'll try to get the answers to these questions myself, but at the speed I work with this stuff, that may take a while.

lanceA
06-21-2009, 07:30 PM
On computers running M$ Windows XP or later, the maximum length
of the string that you can use at the command prompt is 8191 characters.
On computers running M$ Windows 2000 or Windows NT 4.0, the maximum length of the string that you can use at the command prompt is 2047 characters. I realize that you were talking about a batch (.bat) file so kindly continue to read...

I trust you are aware that in XP you can give a batch file the extension .cmd? (http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t198313-cmd-vs-bat-for-winxp-batch-file.html#) Guess what the characters-per-line limit on a .cmd file is?

I personally take offense with your statement regarding "arguing" - I view what arevira and I have been discussing as exchanging ideas and information. If you have some positive input concerning working with Alice 3.0(beta) and Java that we all could benefit from, please share it. We openly welcome it. Let's all work together on this new release to explore its capabilities. :)

In the mean time I wish you success in your quest to advance an obsolete product - "...advance Alice 2.0 to a higher level than it was intended." I was of the impression it was intended to be a teaching tool.

I apoligize for not being as computer literate as you claim to be.

http://kona.kontera.com/javascript/lib/imgs/grey_loader.gif

lanceA
06-21-2009, 07:46 PM
You boys and girls get done with your stuff--I will have advanced Alice 2.0 to a higher level than it was intended.

You guys talk nonsense and the results will show when its judgment day either for you or me. If I was to put my money on someone it would go to the person who knows computers. Knowing the "path statement" in either a batch file or in the command statement in Windows "could be the ticket". I've played with the batch file in Alice 3.0--changed the path--try it some time. Also ask yourselves this question--is there a "shell statement allowed". But it don't matter does it Jim. If you look at the command line in the batch file you will see its all on the same line. Somewhere some one wrote that only 256 characters are allowed.

I really feel sorry for you guys--you'll never get stuff done arguing over this. It makes me laugh how confusing you all can be at times.. :D

But some day you might ask my opinion and you might get stuff done today--not next week..:D

On computers running M$ Windows XP or later, the maximum length of the string that you can use at the command prompt is 8191 characters. On computers running M$ Windows 2000 or Windows NT 4.0, the maximum length of the string that you can use at the command prompt is 2047 characters. I realize that you were talking about a batch (.bat) file so kindly continue to read...

How do you expain Alice.bat, which is the batch file used to open Alice 3.0 (beta)??? When I open it in Notepad it is 7 lines long!!! How computer literate are you? (256 characters??) We are NOT talking about DOS's path statement. When working with Java my friend think about Java's classpath statement, there is a difference. Open Alice.bat and go to the characther postion 252 and there you should see the Environment Variable: - ClassPath. The batch file is more than 700 characters in size.

I personally take offense with your statement regarding "arguing" - I view what arevira and I have been discussing as exchanging ideas and information. You are not aware of any private conversations arevira and I have had concerning this matter.

If you have some positive input concerning working with Alice 3.0(beta) and Java that we all could benefit from, please share it. We openly welcome it. Let's all work together on this new release to explore its capabilities. :)

In the mean time I wish you success in your quest to advance an obsolete product - "...I will have advanced Alice 2.0 to a higher level than it was intended." I was of the impression it was intended to be a teaching tool.

I apoligize for not being as computer literate as you claim to be.

http://kona.kontera.com/javascript/lib/imgs/grey_loader.gif

arevira
06-22-2009, 12:40 AM
@ lanceA: Hear hear.

@ others:
Like lanceA mentioned a few posts ago, we are "navigating uncharted waters" here. At least in the direction this thread has taken, we are trying to advance our knowledge about Alice3.0 and Java. So far, good old-school hacking have given promising results.

DrJim
06-22-2009, 08:28 AM
@ lanceA: Hear hear.
@ others:
Like lanceA mentioned a few posts ago, we are "navigating uncharted waters" here. At least in the direction this thread has taken, we are trying to advance our knowledge about Alice3.0 and Java. So far, good old-school hacking have given promising results.

"Hear, Hear" is a little too British for me, :cool: but I certainly agree with both you and LanceA. I'm not sure I totally disagree with the "arguing" charge - but hopefully it's a constructive type of arguing. And IMO it's also in the spirit of Alice as a teaching/learning tool - not as a tool to create videos.

Not that Alice 2.0 couldn't do that. I personally did an Alice 2 anaimation that got accepted at a judged, national film festival (it came in third and got nice comments from the judges). Alice 3.0 Beta is NOT at that state - for many reasons including no billboards or user defined lights - and I suspect that some of the advantages Alice 2.x had for doing videos will be permanently sacrificed in Alice 3.0 in favor of enhancing its teaching role. Again, IMO, that's the correct route. Better to do your main task really well than to try to do too many things and leave key issues poorly covered.

DrJim
06-22-2009, 08:34 AM
... Environment Variable: - ClassPath.

Just out of curiousity, since there are two different ClassPaths listed in the window (system and user, I think, though I don't have the window open), what exactly is the difference between them - and what do you do if you have multiple users on a single system?

Also, for anyone working with these, remember changes don't happen until after you reboot the system! I lost a couple of hours before I discovered (remembered?) that.

DrJim
06-23-2009, 01:24 AM
When I run an Alice 3 project from NetBeans or from the resulting .jar file, the restart button is always grayed out and inoperable (it works fine in Alice 3). Pause/resume and the speed control work fine both in Alice and NetBeans.

Anyone else seen the same thing? :confused:

arevira
06-23-2009, 08:26 AM
When I run an Alice 3 project from NetBeans or from the resulting .jar file, the restart button is always grayed out and inoperable (it works fine in Alice 3). Pause/resume and the speed control work fine both in Alice and NetBeans.

Anyone else seen the same thing? :confused:

Yes, I did notice that --have not had the chance to investigate yet, though

arevira
06-23-2009, 08:30 AM
Just out of curiousity, since there are two different ClassPaths listed in the window (system and user, I think, though I don't have the window open), what exactly is the difference between them - and what do you do if you have multiple users on a single system?

My understanding is that environment variables declared at the 'system' level apply to all users. However, if a system variable is also declared at the 'user' level (and it applies to the current logged in user only) its value replaces the one defined at the 'system' level.

Dennis Cosgrove
06-23-2009, 01:19 PM
First of all, let me say I really impressed with how much everyone has been able to figure out. Allow me to apologize for the fact that this is necessary. Keep up the good work. :)

When I run an Alice 3 project from NetBeans or from the resulting .jar file, the restart button is always grayed out and inoperable (it works fine in Alice 3). Pause/resume and the speed control work fine both in Alice and NetBeans.

Anyone else seen the same thing? :confused:

As the title reads: "Restart only works within the AliceIDE".

Hmm... I suppose resetting could be pulled off in the Netbeans/StandAloneJar/Applet context. It would basically entail destroying the current program and starting a new one. I wish java would add a "java.main" system property.

DrJim
06-23-2009, 05:39 PM
Dennis, as far as I'm concerned I hope you just keep working on the main program and get it past Beta status. :)

The rest of us can hack away at the NetBeans thing for now. And even with my limited understanding, it's already helped me in one area - expanding the color pallet from the current Alice 3 options.

But thanks for the input :) - it's really hard, for me at least, to figure out what's really in the program and what I'm just goofing up on.

Since in this case, disabling restart is in the program - it should be easy enough to use a MouseListener to keep itterating a program until I'm actually ready to stop. Seems a lot easier than tearing the current NetBeans plugin apart.

DrJim
06-23-2009, 05:46 PM
... if a system variable is also declared at the 'user' level (and it applies to the current logged in user only) its value replaces the one defined at the 'system' level.

Thanks. That explains a lot. :)

DrJim
06-24-2009, 11:04 AM
- it should be easy enough to use a MouseListener to keep itterating a program until I'm actually ready to stop ...

I should KNOW NEVER to say something like that - Murphy is always listening. :rolleyes:

Needless to say, I've been totally unsuccessful in exporting even the simplest Alice program containing a MouseListener into NetBeans. :( (I filed a bug report with the details.)

I think it shouldn't be too hard to add the MouseListener in NetBeans, the same way as I did the "Hello World" output in another posting. Unfortunately "Hellow World" is at the high end of my Java programming capabilities right now, so it may be a week or so before I actually try this again. The basic concept does work fine in Alice.

DrJim
06-25-2009, 10:16 AM
... it shouldn't be too hard to add the MouseListener in NetBeans

Turned out it was easier to put the RUN procedure code inside a While loop (always evaluating true) and then call a "plain" message dialog at the end of the code. This will keep the loop from continuing until you click on OK. I put a photo at http://www.alice.org/community/showthread.php?p=10782#post10782 .

DrJim
06-26-2009, 08:08 PM
A couple of fairly basic questions:

1. Since all built project files are named "AliceProjectWizardProject.jar," does it hurt to rename them? and 2. If so, is it possible to just duplicate the supporting files once, or do you have to do that for all projects?

3. If you can get by with doing it only once, can you then run a .jar file imbeded in a web page?

4. Do you need the full JDK to run the projects or is the JRE enough?

... the legal question becomes significant

Well I did come up with some answers:

1., 2. & 4. It does not seem to hurt to rename the "AliceProjectWizardProject.jar" file. You can then put several different projects with different names in one folder with just one copy of the lib folder and they all run fine on a machine with just the JRE.

With different names, the only consistant way I've found to run the different files is to create a different .bat file with the correct .jar file name for each project. No big deal, since this just involves copying, editing and renaming a single line text file. I've tried putting some default paths as "Environmental Variables" - and "sort of" gotten that to work - but the .bat file approach seems both simpler and safer.

I suspect you probably will also have to check each lib file for each new build to make sure your latest program hasn't added something new.

Also I have not tried this yet on a machine that doesn't have Alice 3 installed, so I can't comment on that yet. As far as the legal issues go, I'm not a lawyer, but as I read the agreements, it would seem just including them - with a coverning note - in any distribution should be sufficient.

That leaves question 3 - is there actually a way to embed these in a web page? I rather expect the answer is no without some server side work - but if you can, even that way, what is needed? (I realize this isn't a trivial question but I'm really just looking for a place to start - not a complete answer.)

One final note concerning packing everything into an .exe file. At least one of my e-mail services won't even let you attach .exe files - and many firewalls block them. That may be more of a practical problem than the legal issues are.

arevira
06-30-2009, 11:34 PM
(This is my third attempt to answer this question...I always get timed out and loose what I wrote!!)

DrJim, you are correct with respect to (wrt) 1,2, and 4.
Alternatively, leave the name of each jar file unchanged and in its dist folder and make a generic BAT or EXE. Make sure your BAT or EXE file uses relative paths for the files related to your project. For the EXE in particular, make sure you DO NOT include the jar file into the EXE file (check the "Don't wrap the jar file, launch only" option in Launch4j).

wrt #4, As you pointed out, it suffices to have the JRE. Make sure the version is jre1.5.0_17 --some older versions may work, but this is the one bundled with Alice3.0, so it is probably wise to follow suit in this respect.

wrt #3, this is the big one.
It is well-known that you can make a Java program to run as both an Applet and as application. However, there are important restrictions for Applets due to the sandbox model they run in (there are mechanisms to deal with some of the restrictions, however)
My main concern is with the DLLs needed to run an Alice project. I have no experience with writing Applets that need DLLs...I have always tried to stick to the Java motto write-once-run-anywhere. There is another technical problem: what about Mac, UNIX and Linux users trying to see your page with an embedded Alice3 project in it?

Another alternative could be Java Web Start. It has fewer restriction than Applets and none of the compatibility issues that you may run into when the version of the VM in the browser is not appropriate for the applet you are trying to run....this may be worth exploring --where are graduate students when you need them? ;)

wrt packaging EXE files. In the extreme you can try changing the encoding of the file, say UTF-7 or Base64, and change the extension of the file. This may trick the filtering program into thinking the file is a plain text file. Of course, you would have to reverse the process on the receiving end.

DrJim
07-01-2009, 11:17 AM
(This is my third attempt to answer this question...I always get timed out and loose what I wrote!!)

--where are graduate students when you need them? ;)

wrt packaging EXE files...

Thanks for the information. wrt to the above

1. I can usually log back in and not lose my draft text.

2. Graduate students are especially rare if you're retired from industry. :mad: Even though I taught a few graduate courses, it was always on a part time basis and, for some reason, :rolleyes: the full time faculty didn't want to let go of theirs.

3. Again thanks for the suggestion. At the moment, the problem is only with one of my e-mail suppliers - and their apparently only at the source end. For now, Ijust use the other supplier.

lanceA
07-02-2009, 01:34 PM
Does anyone have a list of changes between Alice 3.0.0.0.55 and the most recent release Alice3.0.0.0.58?

Also with the latest Alice 3 release there are releases for the Alice Library Plugin (Netbeans) and something called Alice Wizard Plugin. I'm not sure if these are the same thing? But since I downloaded both we will soon find out!:confused:

The Alice 3.0.0.0.58 Online Windows Installer actually points to version .55 so unless you want to install that version do not select that item.

Dennis Cosgrove
07-09-2009, 01:52 PM
Does anyone have a list of changes between Alice 3.0.0.0.55 and the most recent release Alice3.0.0.0.58?

Lots of bug fixes in 0058. We will hopefully have more a more detailed change list starting with 0059.

Also with the latest Alice 3 release there are releases for the Alice Library Plugin (Netbeans) and something called Alice Wizard Plugin. I'm not sure if these are the same thing? But since I downloaded both we will soon find out!:confused:

the "Alice Wizard Plugin" creates Java projects from Alice projects.
the "Alice Library Plugin" contains the libraries that Java projects link to.

The Alice 3.0.0.0.58 Online Windows Installer actually points to version .55 so unless you want to install that version do not select that item.

Good catch. These links should now be fixed. Thank you.

vazin
07-27-2009, 12:25 PM
I downloaded the 525 MB file onto my Windows Vista. I then did an "install".
Everythign went fine.

But how do I start the program ? I dont see any startup file opn windows nor any application file.

I see the following doirectory under "Program Files"

Alice3 -->Application, ext,gallery,jre5017,lib
Alice99Plugin-->lib,objects,plugin,setup,sounds,system


Any help appreciated, how to start the Alice 3 Program


Regards

lanceA
07-27-2009, 12:33 PM
I downloaded the 525 MB file onto my Windows Vista. I then did an "install".
Everythign went fine.

But how do I start the program ? I dont see any startup file opn windows nor any application file.

Regards

In the default directory that you installed Alice 3.0 into there should be a file, Alice.bat. This is a batch file that runs Alice. Double-click this file to run Alice 3.0

Good luck,

bryanguber
08-11-2009, 12:03 PM
:cool:

Howard
08-17-2009, 09:05 AM
I just tried a new install of Alice 3.0.0.0.60 and it completed successfully but the file alice.bat is zero bytes long . Can someone post the text contents of Alice.bat so I can see if it works?

Dennis Cosgrove
08-17-2009, 05:22 PM
I just tried a new install of Alice 3.0.0.0.60 and it completed successfully but the file alice.bat is zero bytes long . Can someone post the text contents of Alice.bat so I can see if it works?

i am sorry to hear that you are having problems with the installer. below you will find the contents of my Alice.bat file. if you installed Alice to C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta then this should work.


.\jre1.5.0_17\bin\java -ea -Xmx1024m -Dswing.aatext=true -Dorg.alice.ide.IDE.install.dir="C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta" -Djava.library.path="C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\windows-i586;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\application\windows-i586" -classpath "C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.60\lg_walkandtouch.ja r;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.60\moveandturn.jar;C: \Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.60\foundation.jar;C:\ Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.60\ide.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.59\stage.jar;C:\Progr am Files\Alice3Beta\ext\youtube\google-collect-1.0-rc1.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\swingworker\swing-worker-1.2.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\xmlrpc\xmlrpc-client-1.1.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\mailapi.jar;C:\P rogram Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\gluegen-rt.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\imap.jar;C:\Prog ram Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\pop3.jar;C:\Prog ram Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\smtp.jar;C:\Prog ram Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\dsn.jar;C:\Progr am Files\Alice3Beta\ext\youtube\youtube.jar;C:\Progra m Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jaf\activation.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\jogl.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\mail.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\youtube\jmf.jar" org.alice.stageide.EntryPoint
pause

Howard
08-18-2009, 11:50 AM
i am sorry to hear that you are having problems with the installer. below you will find the contents of my Alice.bat file. if you installed Alice to C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta then this should work.


.\jre1.5.0_17\bin\java -ea -Xmx1024m -Dswing.aatext=true -Dorg.alice.ide.IDE.install.dir="C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta" -Djava.library.path="C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\windows-i586;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\application\windows-i586" -classpath "C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.60\lg_walkandtouch.ja r;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.60\moveandturn.jar;C: \Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.60\foundation.jar;C:\ Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.60\ide.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\lib\3.0.0.0.59\stage.jar;C:\Progr am Files\Alice3Beta\ext\youtube\google-collect-1.0-rc1.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\swingworker\swing-worker-1.2.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\xmlrpc\xmlrpc-client-1.1.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\mailapi.jar;C:\P rogram Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\gluegen-rt.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\imap.jar;C:\Prog ram Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\pop3.jar;C:\Prog ram Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\smtp.jar;C:\Prog ram Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\lib\dsn.jar;C:\Progr am Files\Alice3Beta\ext\youtube\youtube.jar;C:\Progra m Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jaf\activation.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\jogl\lib\jogl.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\javamail\mail.jar;C:\Program Files\Alice3Beta\ext\youtube\jmf.jar" org.alice.stageide.EntryPoint
pause


Thanks for that. It tried it but it turns out the JRE folder didn't include the java.exe.

I was able to fix the install by removing the JAVA_HOME from my environment. Apparently the installer was using my jdk that was slightly older and couldn't unpack some of the installation. I re-ran the entire installation and it worked perfectly.

Thanks,
Howard

ProfessorO
08-20-2009, 05:33 PM
I'm running JDK 1.6.0_16 under Windows 7. When I try to run the Alice3 Beta installer (3.0.0.0.61), I'm told I have to supply the --javahome command line option. Apparently Sun's JDK installer points JAVA_HOME to its default JRE instead of the JDK even if you install the latter. :(

When I add the --javahome option appropriately, I get this error message:

The Java VM at C:\Program Files\Java\jdk1.6.0_16 has the unsupported version

This is the latest stable JDK, downloaded from Sun's website last week and installed on a fairly fresh Win7 system. Can anyone help me? Thanks!

ProfessorO
08-20-2009, 06:25 PM
It appears Sun's JDK installer doesn't set JAVA_HOME, at least under Windows 7. I set it myself, but the Alice 3.0 Beta installer doesn't seem to recognize that--it still needs the --javahome option added. And the same error is still reported. :(

koolkoby
08-20-2009, 09:10 PM
Does it include windows seven?
:cool:

lanceA
08-21-2009, 06:33 PM
Does it include windows seven?
:cool:

Since the final realease of Windows 7 is not scheduled until October of this year, you probably will just have to try it on your Beta-version and see.

Good luck.

ekpalmer
08-22-2009, 06:34 PM
I am running Alice 3.0.0.0.60 on a Windows 7 release canidate.

Windows 7 Ultimate Version 6.1 (Build 7100)

It works (at least somewhat).

I am getting some unexplained freeze ups, but I do not think it is related to 7. I also get freeze ups with XP.

My freeze ups occur during the coding phase as the programs get longer, and I do not have the long of a program so far.

I have not tried Alice 3.0.0.0.61 to see if this helps.

lanceA
08-22-2009, 06:38 PM
[quote=ekpalmer;11556]I am running Alice 3.0.0.0.60 on a Windows 7 release canidate.

Windows 7 Ultimate Version 6.1 (Build 7100)

It works (at least somewhat).

I am getting some unexplained freeze ups, but I do not think it is related to 7. I also get freeze ups with XP.

My freeze ups occur during the coding phase as the programs get longer, and I do not have the long of a program so far.


Without seeing your code it is hard for us to diagnose your problem.

ProfessorO
08-26-2009, 05:17 PM
Since the final realease of Windows 7 is not scheduled until October of this year, you probably will just have to try it on your Beta-version and see.

Good luck.

The final release of Windows 7 is available to TechNet and MSDN subscribers, including MSDNAA. College/University CS departments can get an MSDNAA subscription for fairly low cost--or if you have a Microsoft Campus Agreement, one free MSDNAA subscription may already be included. Check out msdnaa.com or ask your IT department.

Does the development team have access to a final release of Window 7? I'd be happy to test things out for you on my machine ... if I could get past the JDK 1.6.0_16 problem I mentioned above. Help! Thanks!

RobertH
09-18-2009, 05:09 PM
Does it include windows seven?
:cool:

Anything that is compatible with Windows Vista is compatible with Windows 7.

Chris101b
10-23-2009, 12:22 AM
Am I mentally retarded or am I doing something wrong? Or both? I downloaded the file to my desktop, got the installer and began downloading Alice 3 onto the desktop. When it finished, it had the button at the bottom that said finish. When I clicked on it, nothing happened. It closed down and there was nothing. Nothing on the desktop, nothing in my program files, nothing in the start bar.... NOTHING! I know that I installed it to the desktop, but it is not there. Does anyone know what I did wrong?

Chris101b
10-23-2009, 12:24 AM
Woops never mind. Figured it out. :P

Hmm, the interface is different. I will have to play around with it.

Does 3.0 have the ability to make events? I am not seeing that anywhere.

lanceA
10-23-2009, 08:57 AM
Woops never mind. Figured it out. :P

Hmm, the interface is different. I will have to play around with it.

Does 3.0 have the ability to make events? I am not seeing that anywhere.

You might wish to review all of the posts about version 3.0 to get up to speed. Yes you can create events and do a lot of other things in 3.0.

Good luck,

Chris101b
10-24-2009, 02:20 AM
Oh I will, I definitely need to get up to speed. I just found out about 3.0 a couple of days ago. I just don't have time to do much right now.

jediaction
04-11-2011, 01:05 PM
Has Alice 3 been updated recently? more importantly, is the undo button working?

iua
04-11-2011, 10:06 PM
I can't wait until Alice 3 is complete!!!
IT WILL BE AWESOME!!!! :D

jediaction
04-12-2011, 09:05 AM
I was trying to use it yesterday. I can't figure out how to do events! I was trying to make a simple shooter:mad:

beachbum111111
08-06-2011, 10:24 AM
worthless spammer. X, eradicate him.

David B
08-07-2011, 08:12 AM
worthless spammer. X, eradicate him.

Which one? All the posts seem fine to me.

DensetsuNoKaboom
08-07-2011, 08:20 AM
Which one? All the posts seem fine to me.

He has already been eradicated.

dakota95
11-23-2011, 03:40 PM
Alice 3 beta won't work on my pc. There is an error when I try to open it. Any tips?