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@ Confused (as usual) , Dr. Jim
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ttkrakus
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Default @ Confused (as usual) , Dr. Jim - 06-09-2009, 01:31 AM

I am also confused.
Didn't you create the Reply parameter when declaring the firstCow procedure?
You do not use the argument in your procedure, but because you declared in the procedure you, then, have to pass a string to the procedure in MyScene.run()

Am I missing something here?
   
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DrJim
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Default 06-09-2009, 10:14 AM

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Originally Posted by ttkrakus View Post
Didn't you create the Reply parameter when declaring the firstCow procedure?
I did not explicitly create the Reply parameter. It was automatically generated when I created the number of turns parameter to pass to firstCow. Obviously since it is there, I need to pass something back - but I don't (yet) understand were it came from in the first place.

I do have a few ideas - and will post the results if they work.
   
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Sophie
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Default 06-09-2009, 04:06 PM

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Originally Posted by ttkrakus View Post
There is so much Java jargon in this version that seing "procedures" gives me indigestion. .... which reinforces my view that Alice should be language independent, but this is not a popular idea in this forum.
Amen.

I am relatively new to Alice (though quite familiar with programming, OOP, and teaching). I am excited about the new capabilities coming with 3.0 and even more apprehensive about 3.0 having an unnecessarily complex interface and steep learning curve.

To the brains behind developing Alice ... please don't bog down Alice with syntax noise from Java (or anywhere else). If you want some constructs (whether from Java or not), present them the simplest way you can, please. When a new user things "I'd like to do X" make it as easy as possible for them to find the right tools to do X.

Stepping from Alice 3.0 to editing textual Java code needs to be a conscious move, and students can expect to deal with some mappings along the way.

Thanks!
   
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Alice3 and Looking Glass
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Dennis Cosgrove
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Default Alice3 and Looking Glass - 06-10-2009, 04:49 PM

Apologies for the understandable frustration.

What you are seeing today is a version of Alice that is not only under heavy construction but also has been torqued to the needs of a CS101 class. As far as “not a popular idea in this forum” nothing could be further from the truth. I agree with you that Alice3 in its current default incantation is far too complex (even for someone in CS101, never mind middle school). We are working on it and are far from finished.

Beyond that I would like to assure you that you need not worry about convincing us that what you have described is important.

There are multiple audiences for this system and we understand that.

Beyond just the simple customization that Alice will provide (which some of you have already started to discover) what is really exciting is continuing work of Caitlin Kelleher and her students at WashU on LookingGlass. (For those of you who don't know, Caitlin's dissertation work was StorytellingAlice which is the basis of Alice3.) Having seen an advance look of Looking Glass, I can tell you that you will be very pleased when it comes out.

Looking Glass goes way beyond a simple repackaging of Alice3 optimized for middle schoolers. They are already making advances in code search, debugging, and supporting students learning from existing worlds.

So to sum up, we are working together to build two separate systems which will hopefully be better than creating one system that tries to meet the needs of different audiences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttkrakus View Post
I am getting a little frustrated with v3.0...what about those "procedures"

There is so much Java jargon in this version that seing "procedures" gives me indigestion. We have "this" and "classes" and "mouseListeners", why do you have to talk about "procedures" where such syntactical construct does not exist in Java --or was it added recently and I did not notice?

Of course, we can also argue that the "for all together" does not have a syntactically counterpart in Java either...which reinforces my view that Alice should be language independent, but this is not a popular idea in this forum.

I am a bit concerned that Alice 3.0 is getting so complex that we are going to have to learn Alice 2.X first to ease the transition to Alice 3.0!

Anyways...
   
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DrJim
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Default 06-10-2009, 06:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Dennis Cosgrove View Post
Looking Glass goes way beyond a simple repackaging of Alice3 optimized for middle schoolers. They are already making advances in code search, debugging, and supporting students learning from existing worlds.

So to sum up, we are working together to build two separate systems which will hopefully be better than creating one system that tries to meet the needs of different audiences.
Great News.

And thanks for the information. For what my opinion is worth, I think you are very much on the right track.
   
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Just lurking
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DickBaldwin
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Wink Just lurking - 06-10-2009, 07:30 PM

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Originally Posted by lanceA View Post

Where is Dick Baldwin when we need him most!!
Just lurking in the background, watching to see where this thing actually goes.

Once v3.0 becomes a reasonably stable product, I will probably write a series of tutorials on it and incorporate it into my Java courses. Until then -- since I was deemed unqualified to be a beta tester, I have decided to let the beta testers do the debugging.
   
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lanceA
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Default 06-11-2009, 07:05 PM

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Originally Posted by DickBaldwin View Post
Just lurking in the background, watching to see where this thing actually goes.

Once v3.0 becomes a reasonably stable product, I will probably write a series of tutorials on it and incorporate it into my Java courses. Until then -- since I was deemed unqualified to be a beta tester, I have decided to let the beta testers do the debugging.
Thanks for the reply....
   
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New Scenes
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cawashburn
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Default New Scenes - 06-15-2009, 04:46 PM

Maybe I'm missing something simple or maybe it's just the difference between working in Storytelling Alice and something that's obviously very different - but is there a way to make a new scene in Alice 3.0?
   
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DrJim
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Default 06-15-2009, 06:43 PM

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Originally Posted by cawashburn View Post
- but is there a way to make a new scene in Alice 3.0?
Good question. I wondered about that myself.

At least as far as I can see, the current version hasn't implemented any way to define user classes, despite the presence of the "My Classes" folder after installation. LanceA seems to have been successful in creating new instances - but from his postings, they seem to be of existing classes.

If I'm wrong - somebody please clarify.
   
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lanceA
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Default 06-15-2009, 09:25 PM

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Originally Posted by DrJim View Post
Good question. I wondered about that myself.

At least as far as I can see, the current version hasn't implemented any way to define user classes, despite the presence of the "My Classes" folder after installation. LanceA seems to have been successful in creating new instances - but from his postings, they seem to be of existing classes.

If I'm wrong - somebody please clarify.
Dr. Jim, so far all that I have done is create objects of existing Alice classes and this required that I import certain libraries into my code. However, I'm not sure what is meant by the users question: "...create a new scene in Alice 3.0 " ? What does this mean?


Later this week I would like to create a world in Alice 3.0 using the snow template and then attempt to use NetBeans to add a new 'scene' which changes to the Grass Template while the world is running - however, I will need to spend a good deal of time studying the code for the existing world to see how Alice 3.0 can do that.

By the way, moving your Alice world to NetBeans appears to be a one-way street, you can not write Java code in NetBeans and then run your modified program in Alice 3.0 - at least I have not determined how to do this. But look at the positive side to this - Java programs run very well all over the Net!! You don't need to film your program, you just post it on the Net for all to see!

I realize this will not be appealing to many on this site who are seeking instant gratification in creating the world's next block-buster game! However, as a teaching tool this will be a great tool for transitioning to higher learning.

Last edited by lanceA; 06-15-2009 at 10:18 PM.
   
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