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Things I Hope Are Fixed So Alice Becomes Actually Useful/Usable
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BenMcLean
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Cool Things I Hope Are Fixed So Alice Becomes Actually Useful/Usable - 10-07-2009, 01:00 AM

Staying up late at night, working on an ALICE 2.2 project that should work perfectly, if it weren't for stupidity on the part of ALICE's developers.

The following is a list of improvements I have noticed are needed before ALICE can become a usable piece of software. I hope that the new version will have addressed these issues rather than digging the hole deeper.

1. Typing interface. No one should ever be doing any programming language via drag and drop. That is STUPID. If anyone is stupid enough to want drag-and-drop, offer it as an option, but don't force people into this drag-and-drop stupidity. If you are too stupid to add a text interface, try adding copy and paste to your retarded drag-and-drop interface.
2. Make imported sound file paths relative. DUH!! Not Alice's fault - my college's fault.
3. Make Alice's "seconds" into real seconds, based on the clock, not on the speed of the processor. At present, making anything synchronize with sound is impossible
4. Take "Export as a web page" off the menu, as it doesn't work and thus should not have ever been included in a stable release.

Last edited by BenMcLean; 10-07-2009 at 04:46 PM.
   
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x2495iiii
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Default 10-07-2009, 02:49 AM

OKay...

First thing, saying that the drag-and-drop interface is STUPID is your (terrible) opinion, so don't go waving it around like it's something everyone else agrees with. (newsflash: they don't. Actually, most normal humans LIKE the drag-and-drop interface, as it makes for quicker, simpler, syntax error-free programming.)

Second thing, insulting the developers as you're asking them to do something for you FOR FREE is just about the stupidest thing I'VE ever seen.

Third thing, if you had any brains at all, you'd already know from reading about Alice 3.0 (it's only the biggest thing on the homepage, that's all) that they've already worked in an option of using code or drag-and-drop.

A closed mouth collects no feet, so wipe yours off and think before you go saying stupid things like this.
   
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BenMcLean
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Cool 10-07-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by x2495iiii View Post
First thing, saying that the drag-and-drop interface is STUPID is your (terrible) opinion, so don't go waving it around like it's something everyone else agrees with. (newsflash: they don't. Actually, most normal humans LIKE the drag-and-drop interface, as it makes for quicker, simpler, syntax error-free programming.)
No they don't. That's absurd. If that's so, why don't real IDEs like Microsoft Visual Studio or Code::Blocks have a drag and drop option? Because it's a useless pain in the neck that makes everything take three times as long, that's why.

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Second thing, insulting the developers as you're asking them to do something for you FOR FREE is just about the stupidest thing I'VE ever seen.
This isn't for free. Not really. Nobody in their right minds would use Alice 2(.0-.2) unless it was required for a class. The class I'm taking requires buying the book. I paid good money to buy the textbook from Cargemie-Mellon. And I only got four hours of sleep last night because of this nonsense. So I'm kinda ticked off. Look at this crap that is the result

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they've already worked in an option of using code or drag-and-drop.
Oh good, finally some sense. I wasn't about to go reading a bunch of stuff last night with a deadline on homework approaching. What about the other issues I brought up? Having Sims characters is cool, but only if you can get control of the timing issue and encode video at the same speed the instructions execute. Even making the seconds be real clock seconds doesn't matter so much as making sure they don't vary between machines. In 2009, apps shouldn't be timed by the processor like a badly written QBasic game.



I probably ought to apologize for the extreme tone though. Right now I'm running on very little sleep - for which I blame the problems I mentioned (They seem like such obvious things! I can write a much more complex program in C++ or even QBasic in a small fraction of the time it takes to put simple instructions into Alice!) so my patience is probably impaired at the moment

Last edited by BenMcLean; 10-07-2009 at 11:15 AM.
   
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Default 10-07-2009, 02:53 PM

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No they don't. That's absurd. If that's so, why don't real IDEs like Microsoft Visual Studio or Code::Blocks have a drag and drop option? Because it's a useless pain in the neck that makes everything take three times as long, that's why.
Actually, most people DO like it. I'm not saying it's perfect, nor am I saying it should be a replacement to typing, but people who are willing to learn something new often end up liking Alice and use it when their class is over for the fun of it. As far as speed goes, people who know how to use Alice well can make excellent worlds in a matter of minutes.

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This isn't for free. Not really. Nobody in their right minds would use Alice 2(.0-.2) unless it was required for a class. The class I'm taking requires buying the book. I paid good money to buy the textbook from Cargemie-Mellon. And I only got four hours of sleep last night because of this nonsense. So I'm kinda ticked off. Look at this crap that is the result
Honestly, what I'm seeing here isn't that Alice has problems, it's that you have a problem learning it. When you first started programming, did you take the time to learn what the proper syntax was, what reserved words to avoid, how to invoke methods, etc. or did you skip instantly to the part where you press buttons to make letters appear on screen? I don't know, personally, but my guess is the first one.

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I probably ought to apologize for the extreme tone though. Right now I'm running on very little sleep - for which I blame the problems I mentioned (They seem like such obvious things! I can write a much more complex program in C++ or even QBasic in a small fraction of the time it takes to put simple instructions into Alice!) so my patience is probably impaired at the moment
Congratulations, it's good to know that you're an experienced programmer. However, you should know that Alice was meant for people who are the exact opposite of you, people who don't know the first thing about programming. That was really the first priority the Alice team had when making Alice: its ability to quickly teach non-programmers.
   
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Cool 10-07-2009, 04:39 PM

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Originally Posted by x2495iiii View Post
That was really the first priority the Alice team had when making Alice: its ability to quickly teach non-programmers.
I appreciate that, but seriuosly, the typing interface is needed. People end up spending more time learning where to drag things from than actually solving real problems. Two words sum up my opinion of the drag and drop interface in Alice 2.2:

Drop failed.

I have discovered that issue #2 is not Alice's fault but is the fault of a lack of certain kinds of Java sound support in the labs at my college. An error message appears instead of a sound playing in ANY alice world that uses an imported sound. Didn't realize that last night.

Will alice 3's timing be based on real seconds or a standard cross-platform time unit? Processor speed based timing is like, so 1994. And not in a good way. And Alice needs to encode video at the same rate it previews it without the encoder running. With so many free software codecs around, this shouldn't even be an issue.

Last edited by BenMcLean; 10-07-2009 at 04:44 PM.
   
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Chris101b
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Default 12-14-2009, 12:29 PM

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Originally Posted by BenMcLean View Post
I appreciate that, but seriuosly, the typing interface is needed. People end up spending more time learning where to drag things from than actually solving real problems. Two words sum up my opinion of the drag and drop interface in Alice 2.2:

Drop failed.
On the level of an inexperienced user, yes. When you are trying to make a chicken walk to a peanut, problem solving is not a big issue. When you are making a rather large game though, problem solving skills are a MUST!! You need to be able to picture the outcome in your mind and use problem solving skills to get past that hurdle. All of the functions, methods, and variables need to work together correctly so that your world doesn't crash (NEVER DEVIDE BY 0!!!!!!)

I have been using alice for the past 3 or more years and am now very experienced with the interface and know the limits that can be pushed with it. I have made a few huge movies, a couple of games, so I know what I am talking about.

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I have discovered that issue #2 is not Alice's fault but is the fault of a lack of certain kinds of Java sound support in the labs at my college. An error message appears instead of a sound playing in ANY alice world that uses an imported sound. Didn't realize that last night.
Yes, importing sounds into Alice can sometimes be a hassle, but WAV's don't seem to give me an issue, so I usually try to put WAV files into my programs. If there is a sound I want in a different file type, I import it into audacity and export it as a WAV. Problem solved.

I think you need to experiment with the program a little more before you blast it for being retarded. Just because it is different doesn't make it retarded. It is a very useful program.... I even used it in highschool to help me study for some things. I made like virtual flash cards, it was epic.


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