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-   -   Merging objects in Alice (http://www.alice.org/community/showthread.php?t=6503)

arty-fishL 05-09-2011 08:25 PM

Merging objects in Alice
 
3 Attachment(s)
So here's the scenario - you are either bad at importing 3D models, can't be bothered or think its easier to mix models in Alice. Instead of trawling the web for models, or creating your own ones you decide to just make something up out of the objects and shapes in the Alice gallery.

Then you hit an issue - you cannot merge these objects, you cannot create subparts - they are not part of one object. This has especially bad implications if you want to export the model as one piece to be used again.

So here is my solution: as part of my project I am developing I have designed a simple UI that allows objects to be glued together.

I call it [B]Gloo[/B].

Really simple to use, just go to the Tools > Gloo menu at the top of Alice and click to Gloo. A nice dialog box pops up, just type in the parent and as many objects as you would like to glue to it as you want. Confirm it and viola.

Easy as that.

Now you can right click on the parent object and go to [I]save object...[/I] to export it and it will save with all the glued on objects attached.

While I am not yet ready to release this yet, I can provide two screenshots and a compound object. This is Chris101b's motorbike from his video "[I]War Zone[/I]", it originally consisted of several models, but I glued them altogether and it should import nicely as one.

Give it a try.

debussybunny563 05-09-2011 08:29 PM

[SIZE="2"]Looks promising. =)[/SIZE]

arty-fishL 05-09-2011 08:34 PM

[QUOTE=debussybunny563;35475][SIZE=2]Looks promising. =)[/SIZE][/QUOTE]That's probably the fastest response I've ever got on one of my threads.

Well I'm hoping it does look promising, because I certainly find it useful even in its unfinished state.

DensetsuNoKaboom 05-09-2011 08:43 PM

Looks AWESOME RELEASE IT I WANT IT LETS GO NNNNNNNG

Seriously, I want that.

arty-fishL 05-09-2011 08:47 PM

[QUOTE=DensetsuNoKaboom;35480]Looks AWESOME RELEASE IT I WANT IT LETS GO NNNNNNNG

Seriously, I want that.[/QUOTE]Patience is a virtue. If I was to release it now I would probably kill your Alice. Bugs, bugs, bugs.

I forgot to mention, my Alice is all funny coloured in the picture because I also made another themes for Alice thing.

sfunk 05-09-2011 11:04 PM

the only problem I can see with this is that it will deter people from actually trying to create their own models using other means such as 3dmax or sketch up, but this is a brilliant idea and will be helpful to those who don't have the ability to use one of those previously mentioned applications, so Good Job!!!

ieges 05-09-2011 11:29 PM

What version of alice is that? I like the green.

And I want... oh so very badly.

arty-fishL 05-10-2011 04:02 AM

[QUOTE=sfunk;35489]the only problem I can see with this is that it will deter people from actually trying to create their own models using other means such as 3dmax or sketch up, but this is a brilliant idea and will be helpful to those who don't have the ability to use one of those previously mentioned applications, so Good Job!!![/QUOTE]Another use for this could be for people who cannot export models properly etc and need to join them up in Alice.

[QUOTE=ieges;35490]What version of alice is that? I like the green.

And I want... oh so very badly.[/QUOTE]Its just the latest version, except I modified all of the icons, modified the style and then applied a theme as I posted above.

reuben2011 05-10-2011 04:39 AM

Looks very promising. You probably already thought this through but make sure you don't allow:

-Objects to be their own parents/children. (Ex: You can't be your own mother or daughter.)
-Children to have multiple parents (this seems so sad :rolleyes:)
-The child of the parent to be the parent's parent. (Ex: Your son can't also be your father.)
-Other "recursive" parenting

You could always allow some of these things above, (like multiple parents) but just make it clear for the user.

arty-fishL 05-10-2011 05:25 AM

[QUOTE=reuben2011;35502]Looks very promising. You probably already thought this through but make sure you don't allow:

-Objects to be their own parents/children. (Ex: You can't be your own mother or daughter.)
-Children to have multiple parents (this seems so sad :rolleyes:)
-The child of the parent to be the parent's parent. (Ex: Your son can't also be your father.)
-Other "recursive" parenting

You could always allow some of these things above, (like multiple parents) but just make it clear for the user.[/QUOTE]I like the way you explained everything. :)

Ive dealt with:
- same parent
- multiple parents (there's only one variable for this anyway)
- parenting of the camera (this shouldn't be allowed, it causes all sorts of issues)
- non-existent parents or children
- adding world as a child (this would really mess things up)
- parenting at a higher level than the world
:D

I have not dealt with the [I]"child of the parent to be the parent's parent" [/I]thing, so thanks.
[IMG]http://www.alice.org/community/images/icons/icon3.gif[/IMG]

The bugs I'm hitting right now are:
- When an object becomes a child it doesnt move to be a subpart of the parent. It just changes its icon to the child icon and becomes the parent's child, but it stays where it is in the object tree.
- When importing, the glued on children cannot be seen in the object tree, but you can click on them and get their properties etc.
- When automatically vehicling the objects glitch position and shape.
:(

x2495iiii 05-10-2011 11:27 PM

This'll come in handy for some of the more complex Alice made models I've seen. I once saw an extremely faithful recreation of kirby and sonic for a Super Smash Bros world, but he never got it off the ground because of the complexity of the models.

arty-fishL 05-11-2011 03:27 AM

[QUOTE=x2495iiii;35531]This'll come in handy for some of the more complex Alice made models I've seen. I once saw an extremely faithful recreation of kirby and sonic for a Super Smash Bros world, but he never got it off the ground because of the complexity of the models.[/QUOTE]That's what Im hoping to happen, just got to squash these annoying bugs :mad:

iua 05-11-2011 06:43 PM

I want Gloo bad.
I want Gloo. I want it NOW!!!
lol

sfunk 05-11-2011 09:42 PM

[QUOTE=x2495iiii;35531]This'll come in handy for some of the more complex Alice made models I've seen. I once saw an extremely faithful recreation of kirby and sonic for a Super Smash Bros world, but he never got it off the ground because of the complexity of the models.[/QUOTE]

If you like I could create an actual usable model of kirdy for you in sketch up, kirby wouldn't be hard at all, just like five spheres would have to be made for him lol

arty-fishL 05-12-2011 06:03 AM

2 Attachment(s)
To illustrate the issues I'm having with Gloo I have glued together Jediaction's supercannon from [I]Halo - The Generator[/I]. This model was made up of a docking station, some cylinders and bits of trees.

Firstly when you import it you will notice that there are only three subparts of the super_cannon object showing in the object tree, which are the - renamed - subparts of the docking station (the parent of the group), but there are clearly more than 3 objects that make up the super cannon.

Upon closer inspection you will find that in the viewport you can click on the hidden subparts and their properties will show up, along with the name at the top, but they are still not visible in the object tree.

Next you should find that the objects will only move together if you drag the parent object (the docking station). If you drag any child part it will move as if [I]affect subparts[/I] was ticked.

But, on the positive side, its still glued together as one object, it can be exported and imported as one object, it can be copied as one object, if dragged correctly it will move as one object.

What do you think? :confused:

reaper1395 05-12-2011 03:38 PM

it wont let me open it, you saved it as a2c, not a2w

arty-fishL 05-12-2011 04:54 PM

[QUOTE=reaper1395;35615]it wont let me open it, you saved it as a2c, not a2w[/QUOTE]That's how you're supposed to save objects, so you can use them in any world. Just go to [I]File > Import[/I] in Alice rather than [I]File > Open[/I] .
Or just press [I]Alt-F-I[/I]

reuben2011 05-12-2011 07:21 PM

[QUOTE=arty-fishL;35594]
Next you should find that the objects will only move together if you drag the parent object (the docking station). If you drag any child part it will move as if [I]affect subparts[/I] was ticked.

[/QUOTE]

All objects have a property named something like isFirstClass and if the value is true, the object or sub-object will be movable. In objects that contain sub-objects, by default, the isFirstClass property of the parent object is true while the isFirstClass property of the child objects is false. It sounds like you have the isFirstClass of the sub-objects set to true when they should be false. I'm not sure if you already knew that, just trying to help.

arty-fishL 05-13-2011 04:23 AM

Thankyou
 
[QUOTE=reuben2011;35637]All objects have a property named something like isFirstClass and if the value is true, the object or sub-object will be movable. In objects that contain sub-objects, by default, the isFirstClass property of the parent object is true while the isFirstClass property of the child objects is false. It sounds like you have the isFirstClass of the sub-objects set to true when they should be false. I'm not sure if you already knew that, just trying to help.[/QUOTE]Oh [IMG]http://www.alice.org/community/images/icons/icon3.gif[/IMG]. Thanks, I've always wondered what that property done, I could never figure it out, probably because I was only messing about with parent objects.

DensetsuNoKaboom 05-15-2011 05:40 PM

You just need to make it set the isFirstClass of all the subparts it creates to false.

arty-fishL 05-15-2011 06:50 PM

[QUOTE=DensetsuNoKaboom;35760]You just need to make it set the isFirstClass of all the subparts it creates to false.[/QUOTE]I'm working on that. The issue is (I don't know if I've said this before) that Gloo works in a different scope to scripting in Alice worlds, so I cant directly modify the properties of objects, I have to access them through a messed up long winded way.

Right now I'm working on a test world that utilises Gloo, but not as its main feature, just so I can see how well it works.

Lordcorvin 05-31-2011 05:54 PM

just a thought

How far are you in development and when is it going to be out?

sfunk 05-31-2011 07:59 PM

I have a question about this, did you use the script from sketchup to do this? because they call there "object merging" gloo as well? if not, you should look into that to help further this project greatly, since they seem to have it down pretty well

arty-fishL 06-05-2011 10:55 AM

[QUOTE=sfunk;36725]I have a question about this, did you use the script from sketchup to do this? because they call there "object merging" gloo as well? if not, you should look into that to help further this project greatly, since they seem to have it down pretty well[/QUOTE]No, I wasn't even aware that existed.

Progress .. maybe will continue soon (but I will definitely finish this ... given time)

Jones989 06-13-2011 03:06 PM

How's it coming so far now? I REALLY need that program for messing around with different projects.

arty-fishL 06-13-2011 03:42 PM

[QUOTE=Jones989;37352]How's it coming so far now? I REALLY need that program for messing around with different projects.[/QUOTE]Well, its coming along (slowly), its in with several other things I'm doing.

[U]Current project:[/U]
Making a file I/O tool for [URL="http://www.alice.org/community/member.php?find=lastposter&f=5"]TauTrumpsPi[/URL]

[U]Gloo:[/U]
Currently developing side project for release to test features of Gloo out.
Need to finish side project before Gloo development can continue.
Need to finish the platform Gloo runs on before can release.

[U]Gloo Platform - Arty-fishL Addons:[/U]
Still developing Addons platform, need to finish addons for it first.

[U]Addons for Arty-fishL Addons:[/U]
Gloo - as above
Themes - basically finished, need to fix major bug (kind of stuck).
Texture Tools - just a basic menu, not nearly done.
Scripter - will not finish before release of Arty-fishL Addons.
AODBTB - requires new AODb to be finished.

[U]New AODb:[/U]
In development, GUI almost finished, just need touch-ups. New features etc still being worked on.

[U]So basically, what I can work on currently (without needing to finish other stuff):[/U]
Gloo side project.
New AODb.
File I/O tool.
A new game I've been making for a while (on and off periods of work).

David B 06-13-2011 04:55 PM

Sounds great! I have experienced the thoughts that you mentioned many times! Once you release it, please post the download link! (Which I think you are planning to do anyway!)

Jones989 06-15-2011 09:18 PM

[QUOTE=arty-fishL;37357]Well, its coming along (slowly), its in with several other things I'm doing.

[U]Current project:[/U]
Making a file I/O tool for [URL="http://www.alice.org/community/member.php?find=lastposter&f=5"]TauTrumpsPi[/URL]

[U]Gloo:[/U]
Currently developing side project for release to test features of Gloo out.
Need to finish side project before Gloo development can continue.
Need to finish the platform Gloo runs on before can release.

[U]Gloo Platform - Arty-fishL Addons:[/U]
Still developing Addons platform, need to finish addons for it first.

[U]Addons for Arty-fishL Addons:[/U]
Gloo - as above
Themes - basically finished, need to fix major bug (kind of stuck).
Texture Tools - just a basic menu, not nearly done.
Scripter - will not finish before release of Arty-fishL Addons.
AODBTB - requires new AODb to be finished.

[U]New AODb:[/U]
In development, GUI almost finished, just need touch-ups. New features etc still being worked on.

[U]So basically, what I can work on currently (without needing to finish other stuff):[/U]
Gloo side project.
New AODb.
File I/O tool.
A new game I've been making for a while (on and off periods of work).[/QUOTE]

Dang... How do you know about all of this programming? :confused:

arty-fishL 06-16-2011 04:09 PM

[QUOTE=Jones989;37549]Dang... How do you know about all of this programming? :confused:[/QUOTE]Practice, practice, practice.

Also, I have now been tasked with helping redesign and then manage a website (that is not the AODb), so there's another thing that will require top priority.

arty-fishL 08-25-2011 05:48 PM

Gloo 100%
 
Yay!!!:D:D

I can now confirm that [B]Gloo is 100% finished and ready[/B].
It now looks significantly different to the preview originally, so here is a new screenshot just in case anybody is interested.

[IMG]http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2884/tmpgloo100.png[/IMG]

beachbum111111 08-25-2011 06:23 PM

Sweet

DensetsuNoKaboom 08-25-2011 06:50 PM


arty-fishL 08-26-2011 10:52 AM

[QUOTE=beachbum111111;41053]Sweet[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DensetsuNoKaboom;41054]❤[/QUOTE]
Glad to have positive supporters, thanks

room14 08-26-2011 09:24 PM

It looks awesome! and looks like mac.:p

David B 08-26-2011 10:17 PM

I can't believe I was stupid enough to not read this thread before! I can't wait until you release it!

P.S.: Whats with the square?

[QUOTE=DensetsuNoKaboom;41054]❤[/QUOTE]

Dj Tech42 08-26-2011 10:37 PM

[QUOTE=David B;41088]
P.S.: Whats with the square?[/QUOTE]

It's a heart on my computer

arty-fishL 08-27-2011 09:44 AM

[QUOTE=room14;41086]It looks awesome! and looks like mac.:p[/QUOTE]
Looks, like Mac, that is all. It is Windows Vista.
[QUOTE=David B;41088]I can't believe I was stupid enough to not read this thread before! I can't wait until you release it!

P.S.: Whats with the square?[/QUOTE]
Im trying hard to get this released quickly - but I want it bug-free and polished first.
[QUOTE=Dj Tech42;41090]It's a heart on my computer[/QUOTE]
Me too. :)

David B 08-27-2011 10:27 AM

[CENTER][IMG]http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6848/ssquare.png[/IMG][/CENTER]

Dj Tech42 08-27-2011 03:43 PM

It means you don't have a certain font installed, which prevents you from seeing some special characters.

DensetsuNoKaboom 08-28-2011 06:25 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This is what it is supposed to look like.


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